There is way too much randomization...

[[7s] Twidget]

...in the battle system. I mean, seriously. I get my ass handed to me on a silver platter in one fight, and 20 minutes later when the next hourly reset happens, the outcome is completely different, and neither myself nor my target has changed their stats at all. Here's an example. I initiated the fight both times:

The [1] And Only Mentor hacks [7s] Twidget for 318 damage! (2668 left) -- Nice hit! Normal Damage!
The [1] And Only Mentor hacks [7s] Twidget for 176 damage! (2492 left) -- A Glancing Blow! Half Damage!
The [1] And Only Mentor hacks [7s] Twidget for 290 damage! (2202 left) -- Nice hit! Normal Damage!
The [1] And Only Mentor hacks [7s] Twidget for 340 damage! (1862 left) -- Nice hit! Normal Damage!
The [1] And Only Mentor hacks [7s] Twidget for 347 damage! (1515 left) -- Nice hit! Normal Damage!
The [1] And Only Mentor hacks [7s] Twidget for 183 damage! (1332 left) -- Nice hit! Normal Damage!
The [1] And Only Mentor hacks [7s] Twidget for 718 damage! (614 left) -- Beautiful hit! Double Damage!
The [1] And Only Mentor hacks [7s] Twidget for 271 damage! (343 left) -- Nice hit! Normal Damage!
The [1] And Only Mentor hacks [7s] Twidget for 343 damage! (0 left) -- Nice hit! Normal Damage!
You have been hacked by The [1] And Only Mentor.

Literally 20 minutes later after an hourly reset and with no stat changes I get this:

The [1] And Only Mentor hacks [7s] Twidget for 189 damage! (2851 left) -- A Glancing Blow! Half Damage!
[7s] Twidget hacks The [1] And Only Mentor, and lowers his firewall by 571 damage! (1230 left)
[7s] Twidget hacks The [1] And Only Mentor, and lowers his firewall by 376 damage! (854 left)
The [1] And Only Mentor hacks [7s] Twidget for 351 damage! (2500 left) -- Nice hit! Normal Damage!
The [1] And Only Mentor hacks [7s] Twidget for 451 damage! (2049 left) -- Beautiful hit! Double Damage!
The [1] And Only Mentor hacks [7s] Twidget for 388 damage! (1661 left) -- Nice hit! Normal Damage!
[7s] Twidget hacks The [1] And Only Mentor, and lowers his firewall by 577 damage! (277 left)
The [1] And Only Mentor hacks [7s] Twidget for 495 damage! (1166 left) -- Beautiful hit! Double Damage!
The [1] And Only Mentor hacks [7s] Twidget for 275 damage! (891 left) -- Nice hit! Normal Damage!
The [1] And Only Mentor hacks [7s] Twidget for 219 damage! (672 left) -- Nice hit! Normal Damage!
[7s] Twidget hacks The [1] And Only Mentor, and lowers his firewall by 277 damage! (0 left)
You have hacked The [1] And Only Mentor!.



I've been seeing variations on this ever since the big reset. I've seen fights where the average damage number is about 250, but can swing wildly to as low as 100 on a "half damage" line, and as high as 900 on a "double damage" line, similar to the first battle I showed up above. I've seen fights where neither of us were doing much damage to each other, but there were blocks of attack lines where I would hit 10+ times, then the other party would hit 10+ times, and so on until the results page cuts off the details and just gives the final result.

I know the battle formula is supposed to be (User HDD x (User BUS / Enemy BUS)) - Enemy RAM, but with such massive variations in the battle outcomes, it makes it extremely frustrating to even try and figure out where to train your stats based on the battle results.

-- Fri, 08 Jan 2010 01:10:03 +0000 --

Here's an example I just got of the blocks of hits happening together...

[7s] Twidget hacks Apolo[1], and lowers his firewall by 190 damage! (1617 left)
Apolo[1] hacks [7s] Twidget for 89 damage! (2946 left) -- Nice hit! Normal Damage!
Apolo[1] hacks [7s] Twidget for 103 damage! (2843 left) -- Nice hit! Normal Damage!
Apolo[1] hacks [7s] Twidget for 58 damage! (2785 left) -- A Glancing Blow! Half Damage!
Apolo[1] hacks [7s] Twidget for 130 damage! (2655 left) -- Nice hit! Normal Damage!
Apolo[1] hacks [7s] Twidget for 184 damage! (2471 left) -- Nice hit! Normal Damage!
[7s] Twidget hacks Apolo[1], and lowers his firewall by 259 damage! (1358 left)
[7s] Twidget hacks Apolo[1], and lowers his firewall by 241 damage! (1117 left)
[7s] Twidget hacks Apolo[1], and lowers his firewall by 186 damage! (931 left)
[7s] Twidget hacks Apolo[1], and lowers his firewall by 181 damage! (750 left)
[7s] Twidget hacks Apolo[1], and lowers his firewall by 256 damage! (494 left)
[7s] Twidget hacks Apolo[1], and lowers his firewall by 90 damage! (404 left) -- Half Damage
Apolo[1] hacks [7s] Twidget for 164 damage! (2307 left) -- Nice hit! Normal Damage!
Apolo[1] hacks [7s] Twidget for 174 damage! (2133 left) -- Nice hit! Normal Damage!
Apolo[1] hacks [7s] Twidget for 131 damage! (2002 left) -- Nice hit! Normal Damage!
Apolo[1] hacks [7s] Twidget for 90 damage! (1912 left) -- Nice hit! Normal Damage!
Apolo[1] hacks [7s] Twidget for 63 damage! (1849 left) -- A Glancing Blow! Half Damage!
[7s] Twidget hacks Apolo[1], and lowers his firewall by 225 damage! (179 left)
Apolo[1] hacks [7s] Twidget for 410 damage! (1439 left) -- Beautiful hit! Double Damage!
[7s] Twidget hacks Apolo[1], and lowers his firewall by 179 damage! (0 left)
You have hacked Apolo[1]!.

[Sparhawk(7s)]

I have to agree. On one fight, i can fully hack another player. Next try, and I mean literally a few mins later, no stat changes, and its totally different outcome. Not even close to the other fight. Even the hits are random. Something should be done about this, maybe some testing. Hell, use me as a test subject. Just fix it, however its done.

[Rusty]

It means the lower ranked players can beat the higher ranked players, so I personally like the variation. I don't want CW to just be about the guy who is the highest ranked wins. If anything, I want more randomisation

I know the battle formula is supposed to be (User HDD x (User BUS / Enemy BUS)) - Enemy RAM, but with such massive variations in the battle outcomes, it makes it extremely frustrating to even try and figure out where to train your stats based on the battle results.

The randomisation is random, so thus you can ignore it in the battle formula for working out an optimum. If you really want to take account of it, I believe it relies on your bus speed and mostly when you don't initiate the battle, so increase your bus speed to benefit from it.

[[7s] Twidget]

I don't mind some random elements in the fight, but as it stands, there's just too much. When my "normal" attacks can vary by a factor of 10 over the course of the battle, there's just too much random in it. When I can get no hits in on one fight, and then get 10 hits in on the next fight, both with the same person, then it's too random.

-- Sun, 10 Jan 2010 03:43:15 +0000 --

Yet another example of problems with the battle code. This many hits in a row should not happen unless the other party has 10 times more CPU than I do. Which is completely impossible.

[7s] Twidget hacks |OSX|Foamy Squirrel, and lowers his firewall by 376 damage! (1530 left) -- Half Damage
|OSX|Foamy Squirrel hacks [7s] Twidget for 200 damage! (2946 left) -- Nice hit! Normal Damage!
[7s] Twidget hacks |OSX|Foamy Squirrel, and lowers his firewall by 686 damage! (844 left)
|OSX|Foamy Squirrel hacks [7s] Twidget for 126 damage! (2820 left) -- Nice hit! Normal Damage!
|OSX|Foamy Squirrel hacks [7s] Twidget for 326 damage! (2494 left) -- Beautiful hit! Double Damage!
|OSX|Foamy Squirrel hacks [7s] Twidget for 131 damage! (2363 left) -- Nice hit! Normal Damage!
|OSX|Foamy Squirrel hacks [7s] Twidget for 350 damage! (2013 left) -- Beautiful hit! Double Damage!
|OSX|Foamy Squirrel hacks [7s] Twidget for 187 damage! (1826 left) -- Nice hit! Normal Damage!
|OSX|Foamy Squirrel hacks [7s] Twidget for 403 damage! (1423 left) -- Beautiful hit! Double Damage!
|OSX|Foamy Squirrel hacks [7s] Twidget for 168 damage! (1255 left) -- Nice hit! Normal Damage!
|OSX|Foamy Squirrel hacks [7s] Twidget for 144 damage! (1111 left) -- Nice hit! Normal Damage!
|OSX|Foamy Squirrel hacks [7s] Twidget for 208 damage! (903 left) -- Nice hit! Normal Damage!
|OSX|Foamy Squirrel hacks [7s] Twidget for 142 damage! (761 left) -- Nice hit! Normal Damage!
[7s] Twidget hacks |OSX|Foamy Squirrel, and lowers his firewall by 286 damage! (558 left) -- Half Damage
|OSX|Foamy Squirrel hacks [7s] Twidget for 121 damage! (640 left) -- Nice hit! Normal Damage!
[7s] Twidget hacks |OSX|Foamy Squirrel, and lowers his firewall by 498 damage! (60 left)
[7s] Twidget hacks |OSX|Foamy Squirrel, and lowers his firewall by 60 damage! (0 left)
You have hacked |OSX|Foamy Squirrel!.

-- Sun, 10 Jan 2010 19:17:55 +0000 --

Just try and tell me this is normal. He gets 19 hits and I only get 3? It's impossible for him to have that much CPU speed!

Apolo[1] hacks [7s] Twidget for 125 damage! (3237 left) -- Nice hit! Normal Damage!
Apolo[1] hacks [7s] Twidget for 155 damage! (3082 left) -- Nice hit! Normal Damage!
Apolo[1] hacks [7s] Twidget for 133 damage! (2949 left) -- Nice hit! Normal Damage!
Apolo[1] hacks [7s] Twidget for 187 damage! (2762 left) -- Nice hit! Normal Damage!
Apolo[1] hacks [7s] Twidget for 181 damage! (2581 left) -- Nice hit! Normal Damage!
Apolo[1] hacks [7s] Twidget for 131 damage! (2450 left) -- Nice hit! Normal Damage!
Apolo[1] hacks [7s] Twidget for 207 damage! (2243 left) -- Nice hit! Normal Damage!
Apolo[1] hacks [7s] Twidget for 133 damage! (2110 left) -- Nice hit! Normal Damage!
Apolo[1] hacks [7s] Twidget for 100 damage! (2010 left) -- Nice hit! Normal Damage!
Apolo[1] hacks [7s] Twidget for 177 damage! (1833 left) -- Nice hit! Normal Damage!
Apolo[1] hacks [7s] Twidget for 175 damage! (1658 left) -- Nice hit! Normal Damage!
Apolo[1] hacks [7s] Twidget for 80 damage! (1578 left) -- A Glancing Blow! Half Damage!
Apolo[1] hacks [7s] Twidget for 247 damage! (1331 left) -- Nice hit! Normal Damage!
[7s] Twidget hacks Apolo[1], and lowers his firewall by 662 damage! (1398 left)
Apolo[1] hacks [7s] Twidget for 414 damage! (917 left) -- Beautiful hit! Double Damage!
[7s] Twidget hacks Apolo[1], and lowers his firewall by 914 damage! (484 left)
Apolo[1] hacks [7s] Twidget for 167 damage! (750 left) -- Nice hit! Normal Damage!
Apolo[1] hacks [7s] Twidget for 107 damage! (643 left) -- Nice hit! Normal Damage!
Apolo[1] hacks [7s] Twidget for 155 damage! (488 left) -- Nice hit! Normal Damage!
Apolo[1] hacks [7s] Twidget for 179 damage! (309 left) -- Nice hit! Normal Damage!
Apolo[1] hacks [7s] Twidget for 189 damage! (120 left) -- Nice hit! Normal Damage!
[7s] Twidget hacks Apolo[1], and lowers his firewall by 484 damage! (0 left)
You have hacked Apolo[1]!.

[Void is a BIG FAGGOT]

[7s] Twidget hacks |OSX| Junny for 2 damage! (2426 left) -- A Glancing Blow! Half Damage!
[7s] Twidget hacks |OSX| Junny for 4 damage! (2422 left) -- Nice hit! Normal Damage!
|OSX| Junny hacks [7s] Twidget, and lowers his firewall by 397 damage! (3020 left)
[7s] Twidget hacks |OSX| Junny for 5 damage! (2417 left) -- Nice hit! Normal Damage!
[7s] Twidget hacks |OSX| Junny for 3 damage! (2414 left) -- Nice hit! Normal Damage!
[7s] Twidget hacks |OSX| Junny for 4 damage! (2410 left) -- Nice hit! Normal Damage!
|OSX| Junny hacks [7s] Twidget, and lowers his firewall by 677 damage! (2343 left)
[7s] Twidget hacks |OSX| Junny for 5 damage! (2405 left) -- Nice hit! Normal Damage!
[7s] Twidget hacks |OSX| Junny for 3 damage! (2402 left) -- Nice hit! Normal Damage!
|OSX| Junny hacks [7s] Twidget, and lowers his firewall by 484 damage! (1859 left)
[7s] Twidget hacks |OSX| Junny for 3 damage! (2399 left) -- Nice hit! Normal Damage!
|OSX| Junny hacks [7s] Twidget, and lowers his firewall by 534 damage! (1325 left)
[7s] Twidget hacks |OSX| Junny for 3 damage! (2396 left) -- Nice hit! Normal Damage!
[7s] Twidget hacks |OSX| Junny for 1 damage! (2395 left) -- A Glancing Blow! Half Damage!
[7s] Twidget hacks |OSX| Junny for 2 damage! (2393 left) -- Nice hit! Normal Damage!
[7s] Twidget hacks |OSX| Junny for 2 damage! (2391 left) -- Nice hit! Normal Damage!
|OSX| Junny hacks [7s] Twidget, and lowers his firewall by 497 damage! (828 left)
[7s] Twidget hacks |OSX| Junny for 4 damage! (2387 left) -- Nice hit! Normal Damage!
|OSX| Junny hacks [7s] Twidget, and lowers his firewall by 460 damage! (368 left)
|OSX| Junny hacks [7s] Twidget, and lowers his firewall by 368 damage! (0 left)


You have hacked [7s] Twidget!.

You managed to steal 485 from [7s] Twidgets computer .
Your gang took 239 Cyber Dollars at 33%
You have earned 19 EXP for killing [7s] Twidget.
Your gang took 2 Exp at 5%


Completely Legit and Normal

[[7s] Twidget]

Maybe that time, sure. But keep watching your fights, you'll see what I'm talking about.

[Teddy]

o boo hoo, there's randomness in every fight, virtual or not. You can't just predict yourself to win by having some stats over another player.

[[7s] Twidget]

Hey, I'm not whining. I'm just trying to point out that the battle variables shouldn't be changing as radically as they do. OCW was never like this, even with the changed battle formula.

[Bish]

I thought this was going to be about the job completion %.. thats a pain in the arse..

[[7s] Twidget]

That's a pain in the ass too, but at least it doesn't completely change on you every 5 minutes.

[Rusty]

Go see blanz about randomisation in CW being wrong

[Myckaal]

I can almost see how this works:

The battle begins, and the first hit is made --
1 - At the beginning of each hit the two CPU scores are compared. The difference between them get fed into an equation to see who is faster in this round
2 - Who ever the hit goes to, they then do their damage according to the modifier for combat based on HDD and BUS against the other's BUS/RAM
3 - If this is less than the opponent's firewall, go back to step one.

It's the only way it makes sense. Or rather, it's the only way I can see it coming out like that. I'm also not really awake .... so ....

[[7s] Twidget]

There's the rub, though. Even if it worked anything like that, there seems to be up to a 10x multiplier in there.

[Rusty]

there seems to be up to a 10x multiplier in there.

Evidence?

I can almost see how this works:

The battle begins, and the first hit is made --
1 - At the beginning of each hit the two CPU scores are compared. The difference between them get fed into an equation to see who is faster in this round
2 - Who ever the hit goes to, they then do their damage according to the modifier for combat based on HDD and BUS against the other's BUS/RAM
3 - If this is less than the opponent's firewall, go back to step one.

It's the only way it makes sense. Or rather, it's the only way I can see it coming out like that. I'm also not really awake .... so ....

I swear I already commented on this post...
Your idea for 1. is something I haven't thought of before, but I think it might be right! I always assumed it was something like the final fantasy turn based system, as if a bar filled up at the speed of your CPU speed, and when it was full you attacked.

[Teddy]

there is no way there can be a 10x multiplier.