Market fees

[Diseased Violence]

Is there a cap on how low the average can be on ec/dd/web? The market could be easily ruined so that no one will post their stuff... = deadness

-- Sun, 20 Dec 2009 12:32:49 +0000 --

the average should be based on how many ec/dd/web there is in the game, not on what its bought for..

[Andi]

I have no issue with the natural inflation. My problem is with those who buy and sell way too much above the average price.. and from here starts lots of trouble. It is profitable for those that do it, and it's killing the rest of player base.

Also I might be needed to add a minimum price for each items, because some sell them for 1 cd, which has a huge impact on the average price.

[Shinami]

I've considered suggesting something similar to that Matty. I'm still mulling over the full effect such an action would have on the game. How would it affect DD prices? How would it affect EC prices? What would it mean for newbes? What about the higher leveled players? How much of a CD sink would this really be for us? Reopening the unlimited Energy Shop would drastically change everything. A lot of it, if not all of it, would change for the better.




Aoen, how about a minimum price being 50% of the market average?

[Andi]

Aoen, how about a minimum price being 50% of the market average?

That was my thought.

[Rusty]

I've argued until I was blue in the face like this guy --> for the unlimited EC market, and as soon as it was introduced, inflation stopped overnight. An unlimited EC store with price dependant on level (or if you want it to be even fairer, rank) would end inflation permanently.

However, Matty's vision of a communist CW where the prices are dictated is one that I don't support. IMO It should be up to the market, not the admins, what the acceptable price is, and seeing as vashied must have been selling his ECs at his ridiculous prices, the market wanted it, so don't blame him. You can blame people who do things like I did and raise the price artificially by on purposely putting things on at too high an amount, then putting more on for just less than that to make it seem well priced. This cannot be done now due to the average price being listed.

Aoen, how about a minimum price being 50% of the market average?

That was my thought.

Although a minimum amount is another market cap, which I'm always dubious about, at least this one is dynamic. And I was thinking at some point that this lack of a minimum price might be abused (probably by me doing the reverse of what I did before XD), so yea, it might be needed. And seeing as 150% ave is the realistic maximum price you can currently put on (as any more than that means you make less profit) then 50% seems a good minimum price.

[|BAD|Matty]

A Comunist market? wtf? althoug...its too late noe for me to argue reasonably. i'll try to do it tomorrow afternoon lol

[Blanz]

I've argued until I was blue in the face like this guy --> for the unlimited EC market, and as soon as it was introduced, inflation stopped overnight. An unlimited EC store with price dependant on level (or if you want it to be even fairer, rank) would end inflation permanently.

the "unlimited" EC market stopped inflation because it drastically increased the supply... we just need to do that on a smaller scale (but bigger than the original ec shop)

also, the "average price" market fees should also be applied to prices BELOW the average cost... now that would make it somewhat fair, so that an ec buyer couldn't put up and then remove a bunch of ecs that are severely underpriced in order to reduce the average cost

[Rusty]

I've argued until I was blue in the face like this guy --> for the unlimited EC market, and as soon as it was introduced, inflation stopped overnight. An unlimited EC store with price dependant on level (or if you want it to be even fairer, rank) would end inflation permanently.

the "unlimited" EC market stopped inflation because it drastically increased the supply... we just need to do that on a smaller scale (but bigger than the original ec shop)

also, the "average price" market fees should also be applied to prices BELOW the average cost... now that would make it somewhat fair, so that an ec buyer couldn't put up and then remove a bunch of ecs that are severely underpriced in order to reduce the average cost

Any limitation on an EC shop reduces its effectiveness, which is why the original one didn't do anything to stop inflation, but made people with TPs (which I haven't seen around, removed after reset?) more money.

Anyway, putting some sort of 'fee' on putting things below the market price would make prices stagnate at best and only increase at worse (who would sell for less than average when it costs you more than selling at average?). The 50% limit and some checks on this (eg only count ECs actually sold and sold to other players) will be enough. Of course, when big gangs get hoarding they will be able to simply dictate whether the price goes up or down by flooding the market, but so could gangs before if they wanted to so its no different

[Blanz]

I've argued until I was blue in the face like this guy --> for the unlimited EC market, and as soon as it was introduced, inflation stopped overnight. An unlimited EC store with price dependant on level (or if you want it to be even fairer, rank) would end inflation permanently.

the "unlimited" EC market stopped inflation because it drastically increased the supply... we just need to do that on a smaller scale (but bigger than the original ec shop)

also, the "average price" market fees should also be applied to prices BELOW the average cost... now that would make it somewhat fair, so that an ec buyer couldn't put up and then remove a bunch of ecs that are severely underpriced in order to reduce the average cost

Any limitation on an EC shop reduces its effectiveness, which is why the original one didn't do anything to stop inflation, but made people with TPs (which I haven't seen around, removed after reset?) more money.

Anyway, putting some sort of 'fee' on putting things below the market price would make prices stagnate at best and only increase at worse (who would sell for less than average when it costs you more than selling at average?). The 50% limit and some checks on this (eg only count ECs actually sold and sold to other players) will be enough. Of course, when big gangs get hoarding they will be able to simply dictate whether the price goes up or down by flooding the market, but so could gangs before if they wanted to so its no different

its not "any limitation", the original ec shop was EXCESSIVELY limited. alowing everyone to buy like 50 ecs a day at a reduced price (like 50k per) will prevent inflation.

you say "stagnate" like its a bad thing in this game. with people complaining about inflation, and should be about deflation, (but wont because they benefit from deflation) stagnation is the only other option. but instead of stagnation, consistency is a better word. but since the money supply is still increasing, there would be very small amounts of inflation, which is PERFECT for an economy

[Ozy {DD}]

The idea is great, the only change I would do, is give a tolerance of let say 10% above average as still Ok.

If you look now, dds have a lower value then ECS (and you can get 3 for free daily by VoteForUs.php) ** so where can we get our 3 free dds daily **

and since this update, we do see less ECS or Webs in the market !

Other option would be to put a market with 1 fix price per item => ex: Web = 500 cd ; EC = 65,000 cd & dd= 120,000 cd no inflation at all ... newbie like old players would always have the same advantages ...

[Shinami]

Ozy has a good idea. Allowing an EC to be listed to a certain % above the market average without getting the new "tax" applied will allow the market's average price to go up without players biting the bullet on a bit of tax, which cuts their profits a little.

[|BAD| JarKovus]

I think letting players sell for a certain % over the average is a good idea. Like Shinami said it allows players to sell for a little bit more with out the extra tax, and gives them a little more profit while increasing the market average with small amounts of infaltion for the perferect economy like Blanz said. But like Rusty, I don't agree with the communist CW and the admins trying to control the max price at which I sell ECs. This doesn't worry me though because I sell below market average. I don't sell so low as to cause deflation but to be competitve. That is the whole point of a free market, to be competitve. There will be high prices, and if the people with the money to pay those prices continue to do so, it will increase the market price. Showing other players that they too can sell for that price and gain money. So in my mind while the sellers gain some blame so do the buyers. Just because they have the money doesn't mean they should buy it at the high price, they need to buy from those that have competitve prices.

[Rusty]

its not "any limitation", the original ec shop was EXCESSIVELY limited. alowing everyone to buy like 50 ecs a day at a reduced price (like 50k per) will prevent inflation.

you say "stagnate" like its a bad thing in this game. with people complaining about inflation, and should be about deflation, (but wont because they benefit from deflation) stagnation is the only other option. but instead of stagnation, consistency is a better word. but since the money supply is still increasing, there would be very small amounts of inflation, which is PERFECT for an economy

Any limitation limits its effectiveness. If someone wants more than 50 ECs they would be willing to pay more (unlikely that they would, but they might).

And I was arguing more that there was no chance of deflation if you punish people for selling lower than average, and so there would only be inflation and stagnation. With the current system, deflation is still an option. If you want to punish people for not selling at the exact average, you may as well set the price and only sell for that price...

Other option would be to put a market with 1 fix price per item => ex: Web = 500 cd ; EC = 65,000 cd & dd= 120,000 cd no inflation at all ... newbie like old players would always have the same advantages ...

So we do want CW to be communist then?
This seems attractive now, but supply and demand would still exist and instead of controlling prices it would dictate whether people bothered to sell or buy, eg if in a long time we get to the situation again where 1 mil CDs is nothing, no one will be willing to sell their ECs and so the market would go into disuse (as it did with the market caps). On the other hand, if there is massive deflation and everyone suddenly needs CDs, everyone will flood the market with ECs but no one will want to buy them, which will cost people CDs in taxes/listing fees and drive the deflation even more in a vicious cycle.

The current market IMO is good enough. For once, I'm content

-- Mon, 21 Dec 2009 18:23:05 +0000 --

Actually no, I've thought of an improvement
Could you list the average prices at market.php so we don't have to go into the 'add a listing' and then click on each of the drop downs individually?

[Blanz]

and since this update, we do see less ECS or Webs in the market !

surprise surprise!

people dont want to sell for an abnormally low price

[Rusty]

They can sell for 1.5 times the current ave. And they seem to as the ave price often rises by 1.5 each time
It could also be because demand is very high atm and any ECs put up are bought instantly. The DD market seems full even though it is stupidly low (below that of an EC!). There are also 20k CDs to every EC, so selling them at 70k is a profit in my eyes